STARRS Podcast
STARRS Podcasts includes the series STARRS & Stripes which interviews military veterans, talks about their careers and military service, and their concerns about what is happening in today's military. See our website, starrs.us, for more information.
STARRS Podcast
From Flying F-4s to Fighting DEI: A Veteran's Journey to Restore Military Values
STARRS & Stripes podcast host Al Palmer and guest Ron Olds, two veteran F-4 Phantom pilots during the Vietnam War, discuss how political ideologies infiltrated military academies and threatened the warrior ethos that once defined service to country, and how the STARRS organization is fighting to restore military readiness as the primary focus. Ron Olds is a 1969 graduate of the US Air Force Academy.
- Ron Olds shares his journey from a small farming town to the Air Force Academy and combat missions in Vietnam
- How a Black Lives Matter video at the Air Force Academy sparked concern about Marxist ideology infiltrating military training
- The formation of STARRS organization to combat DEI policies that were replacing combat readiness in military education
- Military readiness suffering with operational rates around 60% and maintenance crews cannibalizing parts from museums
- Recent positive changes with the new Academy superintendent restoring focus on the "warrior ethos"
- The fight against embedded DEI continuing despite progress, with concerns about civilian instructors and K-12 education
- The critical importance of commitment and family support in maintaining military strength
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For more information about STARRS, go to our website: https://starrs.us which works to eliminate the divisive Marxist-based CRT/DEI/Woke agenda in the Department of Defense and to promote the return to a warfighter ethos of meritocracy, lethality, readiness, accountability, standards and excellence in the military.
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Welcome back America. This is your host for STARRS and Stripes, a great podcast by the STARRS organization that is behind the success of getting rid of DEI and some of the other corrosive effects in the military. Today we like to talk about the military in terms of readiness and our ability to fight and win wars, and that's what we're going to do a little bit today. I've got a very special guest today and he's also an old personal friend because we both flew F-4 Phantoms together in the Air Force. His name is Ron Olds, after the famous video that was produced by some of the athletic department concerning Black Lives Matter and race in the academy at the Air Force Academy in Colorado. So Ron is a real prime suspect to talk to today and I'm glad to have him back with me. Ron, welcome to our episode of STARRS and Stripes today. It's good to have you with us my friend Well, al, thanks a lot.
Ron Olds:Thanks for all you're doing for stars, and not only what you've done for the country over the years. Appreciate our time together and thank you for our many years of friendship.
Al Palmer:Well, listen. So our audience needs to know a little bit more about just the fact that we're out flying fast jets. You've got an amazing history of your own. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got sucked into the Air Force?
Ron Olds:Yeah, I guess it's a little bit interesting there. It seems probably different than most young people. I grew up in a small farming community in northern Illinois, a town of about 900 people. I really never had the Air Force Academy as an objective. And back in 1964, let's face it the Air Force Academy first class graduated in 1959. So it was a very, very young institution. A lot of interest in it. Me personally, I was not quite so interested at that time. The superintendent of schools knew me and my family very well. We didn't have much money. Well, we didn't have much money and it was going to be very difficult for me to go to college. I did well academically. I was a two-year all-conference football player, so I was fairly well known in the community and knew a lot of people around the conference. The superintendent of schools, I think, brought up the idea that here was a possibility for a young man of limited means to get an education. So he started trying to push this a little bit. He wrote letters to the community asking people to write to our congressman, call our congressman on my behalf and lo and behold, our congress Congressman did give me an appointment at the Academy. So that was how it started I had never flown in an airplane before.
Ron Olds:My father was a World War II vet, as were my uncles, but I didn't really know a lot about the military. So 1965 summer off I went to the Air Force Academy and of course the first question was wow, what have I done? But anyway I started to get excited. I think a real watershed event in my life was Brigadier General Robin Oles showed up in my junior year as the Commandant of Cadets and as we all know, he was an ace Vietnam hero, a real motivating guy. So he started getting me excited in my junior year at the Academy of really wanting to fly, and particularly the F-4, and go to Vietnam. But he was a real motivation at that time and of all of us my classmates still today honor the memory of Robin Oles. So anyway, that's what got me excited. I wanted to go to pilot training and I was crushed. My eyesight wouldn't let me go. I even tried to memorize the eye chart and still failed.
Ron Olds:But anyway I went to navigator training and they were going to kick me out of navigator training because I had a waiver for commission which I knew nothing about. But anyway, I wrote to Robin Oles and said, hey, they're going to kick me out of here. I want to fly F-4s. And got called in after a month of ground school and said Surgeon General says you can stay. So Robin Oles not only motivated me but he also stepped up to help me get to where I wanted to go. I finished high in my navigator training class. I took the first F-4 out of there and, of course, went through training and then that first assignment was F4C's over in Okinawa, which is where Al, you and I met and served together at that time. So that's how I my route into F4's and meeting people like yourself and wanting to really go to Vietnam.
Al Palmer:I dug through my old picture file here and found one of us there at Okinawa in January of 72. We both looked a little bit younger. You're right there underneath the round patch which was our squadron patch, and I'm over underneath where the break is and the vertical tail there, uh, but yeah uh, interesting bunch of young guys. We're now a bunch of old whippersnappers.
Ron Olds:So there you go, that's, that's. Uh, that was quite a group. And then, sadly, as you probably know, uh, a good friend of ours, john staveley, who was in that picture, passed away, and I'm assuming that John Lowry is also in there, who just passed away last week.
Al Palmer:Yeah, unfortunately. Well, what a great bunch of young guys. But we're all volunteers. We weren't drafted, although some of us tried to dodge the draft, I think.
Ron Olds:I never did, to be honest, I never did find out what my draft number was.
Al Palmer:I went to the academy and, like I said, started to get that motivation and wanted to go fly and fight because I passed all the tests and everything and found a way to get in to the Air Force through OTS and I thought I'd dodged a bullet, but then found myself, like you, Ron, dodging bigger bullets over North Vietnam.
Al Palmer:Yeah, exactly that really didn't work out so well, but listen, so you spent some time, so you were in some combat there. I think while I was gone flying weasels in Thailand, you went off to South Vietnam, I think right.
Ron Olds:That's correct About the same time there in August of 72, they were looking for backseaters down there in some of the units in Vietnam, and so I volunteered to go. And then I was sent down to Tockley in August of 72, which is probably pretty close to some of the time that you were sent over there to do your weasel missions.
Al Palmer:Yeah, in fact I was. My first tour was 100 missions at Tockley earlier before the weasel business. Yeah, tockley was a fun place. So is that where you were flying up in country then?
Ron Olds:Yes, yes, I was flying out of Tockley. I was assigned to the 421st Black Widows and I think that was part of the 366th Gunfighter Wing, who had moved from Da Nang over to Tak Lee just prior to my arrival there. So I was there at Tak Lee and spent quite a bit of time sitting alert over at Da Nang, but most of our missions out of Tak Lee, as you probably are aware, were up north.
Al Palmer:Yep, yep On tankers up that way north. Yep, yep on tankers and up that way.
Ron Olds:So after your time there. You got out and went to work for Michelin right, that's correct. I went back after Takli in Southeast Asia, went back to Okinawa, finished up my tour there and then it was time to rotate back to the States in the summer of 1973. And so I came back and was an instructor at George Air Force Base, and after a period of time there, my commitment from the academy was coming to an end and I was trying to decide do I get in or stay out? And I decided I was going to get out.
Ron Olds:We weren't flying much in 1973-74 due to the fuel shortage, and so it was just kind of getting to where. I didn't wasn't excited anymore. So I put in my papers to get out. And then I got contacted from the Pentagon. A guy, class of 1968, said hey, we want you to stay, pull your papers out. So I did, and they talked to me about a number of opportunities, some which were interesting, some which were not, and basically they said, hey, we'd like you to be an Air Force Academy PE instructor. I said, bingo, we've got one. And then they said, well, we're going to send you to Udorn for a year. And I said, well, wait a minute. I just got back and so that's why.
Ron Olds:Yeah, they said, well, we've got to send you a year, so you have a good solid four years at the academy. And I said, OK, that's a bridge too far. So I decided to get out and I had a lot of interviews. I had 50-some interviews with companies around the country and I finally kind of liked what Michelin had to offer and they had a good reputation in my mind it was not a large company at that time as a tire supplier and so I accepted a job with Michelin in Portland, Oregon, as a field engineer, which was kind of nice. My boss was in New York. I saw him twice in two years.
Ron Olds:So they sent me out there and said do what you think is right. So that's how I joined Michelin and we can talk more on where my career went as you desire, but that was my entry into Michelin in fall of 1974 so he couldn't get too far away from aircraft tires well it is.
Ron Olds:It turned out my initial assignment had nothing to do with aircraft tires. My initial assignment was introduced radial tires to the log truck industry in the northwestern United States. And then, anyway, I was there two years and then Michelin said hey, we would like you in original equipment. And I asked is that Detroit? And they said yes. I said hell no. Then I ended up in Detroit.
Ron Olds:But they sent me to Detroit because Michelin had tires on Lincoln at that time and some of the Ford cars and they were trying to get into General Motors and my job was be the engineer to introduce tires Michelin tires into General Motors Took me six years but got it done. Then they wanted me to move to New York, to the headquarters and I said hell, no, and then we ended up in New York and it seems to be a trend here.
Al Palmer:And then after yeah, surprising how that happens, isn't it?
Ron Olds:Almost two years in New York in 1984, I got called in one evening and said hey, michelin has developed a radial aircraft tire. We would like to introduce that to North America. How would you like to do that? So in May of 1984, I started as the only employee in Michelin aircraft tire in North America. So I had a lot of meetings with the manufacturers Boeing, mcdonnell Douglas, northrop and all of those.
Ron Olds:I had a lot of interviews with Aviation Week, usa Today and things trying to talk about the radial tire. I wrote a couple papers, did a lot of speaking, and so then Michelin relocated to Greenville, south Carolina. So I made that move. And then in 1989, we were doing some discussions with BF Goodrich aircraft tires and so I was instrumental at that time in Michelin's purchase of BF Goodrich, which kind of launched us from a very, very small company of a couple of people to a good manufacturing testing organization, and BF Goodrich, which had a good reputation in aircraft tires, finally was promoted to vice president of sales and zone director for North and South America. So that was kind of what made my big step and I stayed in that position and then retired in 2012.
Al Palmer:And settled in beautiful Colorado.
Ron Olds:Yeah, and basically, when I mentioned I started 1984, I was a company of one and when I retired 2012, we were the the biggest tire supplier in the world, so, uh, that that was quite a a jump. And and also during my time at Michelin which I failed to miss I stayed as an Air Force Academy liaison officer for the Air Force Academy, retiring in 1992 from that position. So I've been involved in working with potential Academy cadets for a lot of years and have stayed in that. But, yes, you're correct, retired in 2012, loaded the moving van and moved to Colorado. I wanted to be back near the military community and be around the Air Force Academy, and so that's where we are today.
Al Palmer:So that's where you were when you and I were doing some reunions of our old fighter squadron there. And along the way you called me up one day and said now we got this problem at the at the academy. There's this film that's been done and it's exposing BLM and all to the, the cadets. And I know you were quite concerned about that and I talked with one or two of our other friends and said, boy, this is really a problem. But I I kind of stuck it in the back of my hat for a while. But the more I thought about it the more I realized how serious that was in infecting the production of our leaders in the air force. But it wasn't just the air force was, was it? It spread to Annapolis, it spread to West Point and now we're left with this problem of the leaders and the future leaders in our services having some other kind of a direction than what we all grew up with. You want to talk a little bit about how that affected you?
Ron Olds:Yeah, absolutely, Al. That was a real shock to me. Interestingly enough, my next door neighbor is General Rod Bishop, and he and Ron Scott are stars present right now. The three of us did some talking when this video came out, and so, oh my goodness is this, is a real shock, and this, this has got to be fixed. And we started talking. Then we need to get the superintendent to pull that video down.
Ron Olds:And another thing that happened around that time, which you're all familiar with, was the Hunter Biden laptops, which you're all familiar with was the Hunter Biden laptops and, without getting into a lot of detail, I was highly aware very early on that that was a legitimate laptop and it bothered me a lot that our government was poo-pooing this. And so all of this started to really concern me with what's happening at the Air Force Academy, what's happening in our government. And, like I say, between Rod Bishop and Ron Scott, we did a lot of talking. We talked to a few other people and said, OK, what can we do to try to battle this infection? That's happened, this infection, that's happened.
Ron Olds:So that's when we started talking about forming some kind of an organization to see if we could first of all take on the Air Force Academy, because we tried talking to the superintendent at that time and we were getting very, very little response from them.
Ron Olds:We had to start the FOIA process and even then they just stonewalled us. So yeah, that's what caused my concern is watching what I felt was the degradation of what was happening at the Air Force Academy and also being this close to the Academy. We were mentoring a number of cadets and I'd go out the Academy and I'd talk to some of these cadets and they would express some real concerns what's going on here, and I don't think I like this environment. So that's kind of what caused me some real concern. As everybody else, I mean, I love the Air Force Academy, I love the military and our country needs our military. So this caused me deep concern. So when we started talking what do we do, we had a lot of meetings over a lot of coffee talking about what can we do, and that's when the idea of STARS was born.
Al Palmer:And so the three of you being retired then stood up and realized that there was a problem. My question would be why didn't the active duty side do the same thing?
Ron Olds:Well, and I also want to point out that there was more than three of us I tend to think, I can't remember the original founders were probably about six or seven of us, some locally, some not. So we did a lot of talking and so, yes, we, as retired people, were very, very concerned. But don't forget, one of the biggest voices against this on the active duty side was Matt Lohmeyer. And Matt Lohmeyer started raising concerns with his command and all the way up the line to the four-star general who he had worked for, about his concerns, about the Marxism infecting our military. Why they wouldn't listen to him. I don't know if they were getting instructions from on high, but they all poo-pooed Matt and Matt, because of his integrity, said I cannot sit idly by.
Ron Olds:And then Matt published his book, which really started raising the awareness, and then, of course, matt was fired from his position, which is sad because, as we all know, if we know Matt Lohmeyer, he's one of the finest people, one of the finest officers we have ever known and he was destined for big things in the Air Force. But he was fired and of course that made other people start to be concerned. If I raise my concerns I I'm gonna be kicked out of the military. So this was another one of those big things that happened which made us all really shake our heads.
Ron Olds:And Matt, it turned out, was a good friend early on. We spent some time together. He's got a wonderful wife, wonderful family, and so we had some discussions about what was going on early on and we are big supporters of Matt Lohmeyer and I think Matt kind of lit the fire in the active duty. We were pushing the academy, the Air Force Academy. Matt was kind of lighting the fire in the active duty and then it was sometime after that we started meeting some of the people from the Army and the Navy and getting West Point and Annapolis in our sites as well.
Al Palmer:But that's exactly the point is, it was the dedicated people who were committed, you know, and you would hope that that would be the case in the leadership in the Pentagon, on the active side, but somehow that sense of accountability and being able to stand up disappeared for a while. We're hopeful that that's coming back right.
Ron Olds:Well, I hope so and I don't mind telling you I was extremely disappointed in the high level leadership and one of the things we found early on in our formation of stars is three and four star generals didn't want to talk to us. I don't know what they were afraid of, but they just, you know, we were called an awful lot of names and told to go away. And we're just causing trouble and quit blaming the Air Force Academy for everything. And so, yeah, I was highly, highly disappointed in senior leadership, in not only active duty but retired, because we were fighting significant headwinds early on and I think you've heard some of the things some of the people at the Academy didn't want us around and wouldn't talk to us, but again, we just kept our heads down and plowed ahead.
Al Palmer:And so some of that even spread into the Associate of Graduates of the the academy, who are the alumni who, now that they're out of the academy, ought to have a pretty good voice about things that they can see and sense are happening and report that back to the head shed, if you will, the leadership of the academies. They got dismissed in some cases or have been downright ignored, which they shouldn't be. I mean, that's a very positive resource that the academies each of the academies has, and yet that seems to have been sort of dismissed by the previous administration. How do you feel about that?
Ron Olds:Well, this was exactly right, Of course, over the years I've been a member of the Association of Graduates for many, many years I know a lot of people and there was a lot of discontent with grads about what was going on at the Air Force Academy. They were of the opinion that the Association of Graduates wanted our money but not our opinions and our knowledge. And what a lot of the discussions were is hey, we want a voice. You know, we've got what? 50,000 graduates out there and there's a little bit of experience out there and we thought we should at least be able to get our voice?
Ron Olds:Yeah, just a little bit. I mean, we know we don't. We don't run the Air Force Academy, but again, there are things we observe and we all interface with a lot of cadets that are out there and a lot of, a lot of our parents of cadets. So we get some real honest feedback about what's going on at the Air Force Academy and we want it to be successful. So we wanted to at least have a voice. And the other thing we wanted from the AOG was transparency. When you publish, we'd like to be aware of what's going on and we want balance and we want the AOG to be able and there were some articles being published in the AOG quarterly magazine called Points, which seemed to favor DEI but didn't offer any balanced points as well. So that was another thing we started to push on, and I think that was the biggie. We just want transparency and we want to have a voice. We're not trying to run the place, we just like to have a voice.
Al Palmer:But that kind of seems to me to be something that keeps them from being isolated and insulated in leadership If they're out there getting that opinion from the larger group of graduates and also, you know, being able to talk to the cadets and you know there's some interface there that needs to occur too to keep them up with what's happening. Do you think that's been a problem a little bit with the leadership being unfocused?
Ron Olds:Well, I think there's two people I really need to compliment. Mark Hilly is the CEO of the AOG. Mark, I think, has been doing a very, very fine job since he was appointed to that position. I've met with him on a number of occasions and he listens. I've been able to tell him some things. He listens and I know he for a fact meets regularly with the superintendent at the academy. Now I don't know what they talk about, but I trust Mark that he's sharing things. The second person I have to compliment is the superintendent. I may butcher his name, lieutenant General Bauerfein, and I have talked with him on a number of occasions and he has been very open and say I welcome graduate feedback, be it positive or negative. So I think we have two significant people here which I think are representing what we want, and I'd like to say I think we've kind of turned a corner in that regard from previous leadership out at the Academy. So I feel quite good about that and I think we're going in a good direction.
Al Palmer:You know I think back a little bit to you and I when you were putting on a reunion of our fighter squadron there in Colorado. We went out to the Academy one day and we were being briefed by one of the senior officers there and I think the question came up what about war fighting? Are you teaching that still? And as I recall, the response was not very enthusiastic. Do you think that was a problem that it developed that now may be switching back?
Ron Olds:Absolutely. I think as this woke philosophy, the Marxism philosophy, started to sneak in, there was so much attention being given to social things. I remember I got a notice one day of a cadet telling me that oh, there was a transgender briefing going on out at the academy at a given time in a lecture hall, and the first 50 people to sign up would get a free lunch. So there was some enticement in trying to, you know, address some of these things and we said wait a minute, what's going on? We're having trans briefings, the Air Force Academy, and of course we're all familiar, I think, with the purple rope thing that came along where there were DEI, represented squadron that wore a purple armband or a purple rope and they reported through a separate chain of command, which almost like a Gestapo kind of a situation. So that really bothered us quite a bit.
Ron Olds:But one of the big events that happens every year at the Air Force Academy is the National Character and Leadership Symposium, ncls. They invite war heroes from around the world. Some of the things I've heard in years past Navy Seals, and some of the things that these young people have done Medal of Honor winners just warms your heart. But over a few years ago those conferences or symposiums started to trend to bringing in Ivy League professors that were left-leaning and a lot of you know. I attended one that was a trans Colonel in the Air Force and a lot of these social so never that works of trends.
Ron Olds:well, I just went to the one last month in February of this year. The theme was warrior ethos and I'm thrilled to be able to say I attended a number of the presentations. They were all wonderful. The superintendent gave a wonderful introduction to kick things off. I talked to him several times one-on-one throughout the conference and kept complimenting him on various presentations. So this year, in my opinion and I've talked to a lot of other friends that were at the symposium as well it seems like a watershed event this year that things really seem to be trending back to the warrior ethos, the focus on fly, fight, win, that mentality, and I was very, very pleased with what I heard last month at this conference.
Al Palmer:Well, and to show you how that, I think, is trending right now, about a week ago now, about a week ago I was invited to be the keynote speaker at a big military service ball of all the services up in Milwaukee I'm sorry, minneapolis and when I was there the theme was that was the warrior ethos.
Al Palmer:What did you guys do in the past, how did you do it, what was combat like, and all of that. They're now more interested in that coming back. And at the end of that, this Lieutenant Colonel pulled me aside and he said he said, sir, he says look, you know, I'm happy to hear what you have to say, because my son is at the Air Force Academy right now and he's got another year to go, but he's been talking about not staying in. He'll do his time, do his five, get out, and he's gone. But I talked to him the other night and he says daddy says I think I'm going to stay now because things are changing, and that was that's real time feedback and I was kind of happy to hear that. But he wasn't the only one saying it.
Ron Olds:And I was kind of happy to hear that, but he wasn't the only one saying it. Well, I agree with you and I will say, over the past couple of years I talked a lot of cadets and the theme was five and dive. You know, I'm getting out of here as soon as I can. I don't like this.
Ron Olds:And I have a nice opportunity since the chapel has been closed, a number of cadets attend our church, so I have the chance almost every Sunday to talk to a current cadet out at the Air Force Academy and how things are going and just the feeling you get is definitely improving.
Ron Olds:Feeling you get is definitely improving and I see some of these young cadets and great young people feeling more and more positive about military service. And I can also tell you, as you know, we all know a number of people that have, unfortunately at our point in life, grandkids and you know before here, two years ago, the last thing they wanted their grandkids to do was go into the military. I'm starting to get a little bit better feeling of people like you and I that saying you know what, maybe that wouldn't be a bad path for my grandson or granddaughter to take. So I'm seeing some trends and being out here, where we're completely immersed in the military, as you are down there in the San Antonio area, I think we're starting to feel some things turning and I think Pete Hegseth is going to make some big changes, and I'm quite anxious to get Matt Lohmeyer sworn in as the Undersecretary of the Air Force and I think he's going to have some big impacts as well.
Ron Olds:So I think we're getting good leadership in Washington. I'm happy to see some of the attitude changes from some of the cadets, so I think a lot of that is feeding down right now and, like I say, the superintendent out at the academy seems to be a real supporter of this warrior ethos.
Al Palmer:So, given that that's now a big change that is occurring and we're all kind of hopeful that that will continue to expand, do you think the fight's over with the embedded DEI and Marxism? Is that now a done deal? Is it dead?
Ron Olds:Not at all. We've had a lot of discussions within STARS, as now with what's just happened in November. How does that affect our mission and what we need to do? We've had a number of discussions about this and I think we're all pretty much in lockstep here. No, the battle is not over. The war is not over. We've won some battles, the war is not over, but a lot of this Marxist indoctrination is in place.
Ron Olds:I worry about our K through 12 schools. You know I have two grandsons here locally in the school system and I try to pay attention and talk to them. You know what's being taught in school and I think that's a battleground what's being taught in DOD schools? A lot of this DEI stuff was embedded in the DEI schools around the world with the teachers. So I think there's some work that still needs to be done, and not only that. We've got to make sure that it's embedded and doesn't go away in three or four more years, depending on what happens in the administration. So I think that's still a major effort. We need to make sure that our young recruits are focused on the mission and readiness and not on all of these social things. As you and I know, al, the military cannot be a social experiment. It's sad. We have a mission, we break things, we kill people, unfortunately. I hope we don't have to come to that, but that's what we have to do and that's our job, and we don't have time for a lot of this social activity.
Ron Olds:But another thing that has concerned a number of my academy friends is the amount of civilian instructors at our academies not just the Air Force Academy, but, I think, annapolis has more civilian instructors than others, and so I mean we've got there's some weeding out that I think needs to be done in these military academies on the side of a lot of these professors, because I think a lot of them are very left-leaning, Some of them came from a lot of the Northeastern schools, and I think we need to figure out how we're going to handle that. I know, when I was at the academy, almost all my instructors and I think I would say mainly all of them were military, so not only and of course, coming out of Vietnam, they were all war fighters and so we were indoctrinated with wonderful heroes and stories and it made us want to be like them.
Al Palmer:And I'm afraid we've got so many civilian instructors now that this warrior ethos is not being passed on from those instructors, and you know, we've talked about that a lot on this program, this podcast, in the past, about that very issue of the ability of young people to be inspired, so they want to be war fighters instead of just budgeteers or something.
Al Palmer:But, as you say, it's a bit of a more broadly based thing because it spreads not just from the warfighters and the active and reserve forces. It's also an issue that spreads into the defense industry base, because they're the people that are building the ships, the aircraft, the weapons and all the things that go with it, all the weapon systems, and they're in trouble now too because they don't have the technical talent to do that the way they used to. They recently reported to Congress that the defense industrial base does not have the ability to respond to a multi-front attack on the United States right now, like we did in World War II. So it's not just doing that within the military, with restoring patriotism and war fighting and the ability to function in battle. It's also spread into the industrial base that supports all that and makes all the equipment for it, don't you think?
Ron Olds:Well, absolutely, and you know, we always say like in the military. Our military is a reflection of our society and I think our military industrial base, the people that work there, are certainly a reflection of our society and I'm not sure they're military-focused in a lot of cases, and there are some real challenges. I was reading things about the age of our aircraft and warships. It's incredible how old our military is. We've been so focused over the last 20-plus years on fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq, which is not going to serve us well in the future.
Ron Olds:I don't believe in the future conflicts. So I think our military industrial base has got to trust as well to what is the future of military conflict, and I think it's got different than what we've been doing for the last few years. And and in this war at least, we've worn out a lot of our equipment. Our airplanes are being flown a lot. Our army, all of our military equipment has really been worn out, and now we've got a problem of trying to maintain it or replace it, which are all taking a lot of money. And one of the things I heard yesterday which has really, really disturbed me was Elon Musk said now our payment on our debt exceeds our military budget.
Al Palmer:That's a concern? Yes, well, it really is. Well, and more than that. You know, some of the aircraft you're right that we're flying are older than the crews that are flying them by a lot now, like B-52s, you know. But there are also some issues with operational ready rates. I was reading the other day that the Navy's F-35 operational ready rate is down around in the 30s and for those of us who have flown aircraft, if your OR rate was down below about 80, you knew you were in a little bit of a trouble. So that's kind of a disturbing thing to find out about.
Ron Olds:Yeah, and I think it's not only just the Navy F-35. I mean, you look at I was reading some things the other day about F-16s, f-15s, a-10s, b-1s. I mean, the ready rate from basically our fleet, I think, is around 60% or lower, which is that's a lot of airplanes sitting there Sitting in the hangar.
Ron Olds:that and the other problem we've got is they're to the point of robbing parts off of airplanes that are sitting there to fix other airplanes. I remember a story a while back they were taking if there were B-1 sitting in the hangar, they were taking nose gears off of them to put on other aircraft so they could get them operationally in combat ready. But that's another thing you've got to ask. As well.
Ron Olds:What about our maintenance? Are our young maintenance people really excited and ready? Are they trained well? I think this is another thing where a lot of our young enlisted people and active duty Air Force and military were complaining. We're spending way too darn much time sitting in rooms talking about social issues and not military readiness. But again, I'd like to think we've turned that corner now, but, like you and I talked about earlier in this discussion, it's not over. We still have to continue the fight to put these social issues aside and focus on military readiness, and that goes down to training the young people to work on these airplanes so we can get them back in the air.
Al Palmer:Well, and that function of maintenance is increasingly an issue. It happened to me when I was a museum director and it's still going on now. The services are sending folks out to museums to rob the aircraft there of some of the parts that they've got that they can use. And I remember that with an F-14 when I was in San Diego, that with an F-14 when I was in San Diego they were taking wing servos out, hydraulic systems and airbags because they had to have that for the air sweep. But the problem is I don't think I want a car that's got a whole lot of used parts in it that have been around for 20 years. So that's what we've got. I've got one.
Al Palmer:I have one in my, that's right, you got your. You got your corvette, don't you?
Ron Olds:yeah, but it's kind of interesting we talk about this readiness. A few years ago I had lunch with the ceo of delta and and I asked him straight out.
Ron Olds:I said uh, other than giving you free tires, what? What can we at Michelin do to improve your operation? And of course, the first thing he said was I've got to have a safe product which applies to the military. We need safe products. But he said, secondly, I have to have tires on time where I need them, when I need them. Because he said, if my airplanes aren't in the air, we don't make money. And that's my feeling about we need military aircraft in the air or ready to get in the air.
Ron Olds:Yeah, because you know without that you and I know, when you're flying a fighter aircraft at 500 feet per second, you need to be sharp and you need to be flying to maintain your readiness. So it's not just having an airplane ready to fly. You've got to have the ability to train your flyers, because there's no room for error when you're doing 500 feet a second. You've got to be sharp, You've got to be on top of your game and that requires training and, as much as we like to think simulator training will do it. There's nothing like being in the air pulling Gs at high speed. You need that training so you're ready to go into combat.
Al Palmer:And you know that's one of the things that was one of the failures of the recent administration not to pick on administrations, but they tried that here at Randolph Air Force Base in Texas, near where I live, the pilot training classes there. They decided to have one class that was structured with DEI, basically they were going to put minorities in their categories based on population samples, and they did that, thinking that that was going to be a great way to balance it and they'd have a more diverse set of pilots. That came out of it. It failed miserably. They washed out half the class and it failed because, again, it had nothing to do with external factors. It had everything to do with ability and commitment to doing it and working hard at it. And so I think that lesson is still even there today in the private airlines. You know, I think United wanted to do this for the same kind of thing. That's not going to work out well.
Ron Olds:Well, I agree. You know you can't take me today and say, hey, we need a certain number of old people flying fighters and put me in the cockpit instead of some young 30-year-old gun. That's best of the best, and I think to me to try to shorten the circuit and put someone in that's not qualified results in deaths. And I think the focus needs to be we need to start, and this is something else that I think is important. We've got to start back at basic levels of education for our young people. I don't care kindergarten, first grade, third grade, fifth grade this is where it starts to have the merit of somebody to fly a jet fighter. You can't wait until they're out of high school and say, okay, I'm going to put you in that and it isn't going to work.
Ron Olds:So I would like to see some focus on our education. That's the basis for everything. You know. I mentioned early on my personal experience. I came, I came from a family without, without very much, but through some work I was able to achieve, get some good grades, get some good, good resumes built. So I had an opportunity to go through a certain door and I want these young people to have opportunities to enter through several doors and continue to advance. But again it takes someone that says I want to do this, I'm prepared to do this, and we can't short circuit, not in the military.
Al Palmer:You know the other thing in my discussions with people recently, the one word that's come up, which I think is a little different than I'm hearing these days.
Al Palmer:The word is commitment. It's not just being there for the job, it's not just having something that's exciting to do and then going off to do something else. It is a commitment to do your best to stay there and to make sure that the country is safe, and that's a bigger thing than just yourself. But that's a tough commitment and, as you know, it's even worse when you're talking about getting shot at and the dangers that go with what you're doing. That takes a real commitment that you can't find in the outside world. If you're doing that takes a real commitment that you can't find, you know, in the outside world. If you're working for Amazon, or or Boeing, or or or anybody else, you know that's a tough thing to get people to do, to commit their, their lives, their energies completely to something in the military where, if you do it, you're actually exceptional. You're not just the regular kind of a guy or gal.
Ron Olds:Oh no, I absolutely agree. We need a commitment of young people that want to serve. And again, it's serve. It's not about me when I joined the military, it's about unity, and I think this is where we did a lot of talking and stars in the past, when we had generals and leaders saying, oh, diversity is our strength, and we're saying, well, no, unity is our strength, perhaps enhanced by diversity, but unity is the strength, not diversity, but commitment. And I don't care where it is Al, I don't care if it's the military, a civilian community, it's the commitment.
Ron Olds:I used to drive 110 miles to work on Monday morning when I was at Michelin and one person beat me in the office. It was my secretary, and whenever we had any snow in South Carolina, I could write you a list of who would be in the office this morning and who wouldn't. That's commitment. But again, military requires a commitment way beyond what civilian business requires, because it's not just a commitment of you, it's a commitment of your family, because the bell ring you and I know we set a lot of alert that bell rings and you're off, and a lot of times you don't know when you're coming back. So it requires a real commitment of you and your family. And again, you and I know you need to recognize the families, the spouses of a military person has to be committed and is a real backbone.
Al Palmer:You know, that's kind of funny because just recently I had one of our folks we hang out with a lot tell my wife that well, yeah, you were married to a guy in the military, but you really weren't in the military and that got her a little bit. That got her kind of excited, as you might imagine.
Ron Olds:That fired up Susan.
Al Palmer:Yeah, yeah. So but again, this military ball I was at just recently, all the wives that were there had we talked about that and they were very excited about being a part of what their spouse was doing, whether it was male or female, and and that's something that sometimes is not overlooked but kind of takes a back seat Sometimes we've got to make sure that the families are included and they understand the, the, the critical role that's played, because I don't know about you, but when I was overseas and away from home, you know, the one thing I was always thinking about was what's happening back there and, geez, if it's not going right, I'm going to be in trouble.
Ron Olds:Well, you and I know, when we were there in Okinawa 71 through 73, we were pulling significant temporary duty. I mean we were gone All the time I remember I was gone like 313 days in 12 months temporary duty and then when we were in Okinawa we sat nuclear alert in the hole so we still couldn't go home yeah we clearly understood during that time, as did our families, this this is a family commitment and you're exactly right, we need to make sure we treat and that's another thing in today's military we need to think about the families.
Ron Olds:We need to get these young, young people in, we need them committed, but we need to make about the families. We need to get these young people in, we need them committed, but we need to make sure we're providing decent housing for their families, make sure their families are taken care of and make sure their family you know, we always talked about DEI inclusion, for instance. My goodness, we sure included our families in so many things, and it's not just inclusion of the individual military, but I think we need to included our families in so many things. And it's not just inclusion of the individual military, but I think we need to include our families because, again, they're the backbone and they're the support of you being at the tip of the spear.
Al Palmer:Well, you know, and maybe as a kind of a closing thought here, I know when you headed off to the Air Force Academy, you kind of had to leave a lot of things behind and start kind of a new journey that took you someplace that you probably didn't have a clue on what was actually going to happen at the time right.
Ron Olds:Oh, I'm telling you it was a rude awakening. Oh, I'm telling you it was a rude awakening. My aunt and uncle were driving from Illinois to California so I rode with them. They dropped me off under the Bring Me Men sign at the Air Force Academy. The sign said walk up this stairwell. And I walked up that stairwell and life as I knew it changed significantly.
Al Palmer:I remember when I went to officer training school here in San Antonio and I drove out in my MGB with my golf clubs and tennis rackets and some other sports equipment stuck in the trunk, thinking I was going to have a great time at the country club. That didn't occur. They never got out of the trunk while I was there. What I did, though, was I found myself on all fours cleaning toilets with a toothbrush, character, building right ways of doing things and adapt to military life, and I found it it's so great to see young people, who have some of them have real problems when they get in the military. They find out it is now a family, there is a way of doing business. You have to get up every morning, you have to make your bed, and you have to be tuned in to what people are telling you, and it does work. It builds character, it builds people, and I'd love to see us get back to that.
Ron Olds:Well, I agree, I was in charge of the parents club for the Air Force Academy in Detroit when I was there and mothers used to say, oh, why did they do that to Johnny in basic training? And I said I hope Johnny never knows, but the story I relate to a lot of people. When I was in Vietnam my wingman was killed and we spent a lot of time trying to get a search and rescue up to try to rescue them and two in-flight refuelings to try to conduct the operation. They brought other search and rescue people in. We tried to get a third refueling and they said no return to base. We've got a commander on site, they'll take care of this rescue effort.
Ron Olds:Well, when I got back to the base in Taklea, walked down the ladder, I couldn't stand anymore. I collapsed right there under the wing. That was the military training I had had, that you do the job you got to do to save yourself and others. And then you, you save any of your emotional uh, uh, um distress till a time when it doesn't threaten your life or others. So that to me was a real lesson in what all of that basic training does. It trains you to be ready to do what you got to do to protect your life and the life of others. So, yeah, I agree with you, we need to get back to that, and it's sad today that only 25% of our young people 18 to 25, meet the requirements to enter the military. Neither obesity, drugs, crime, a lot of things like that. So there's another effort that needs to be done in our school system and our health system to get these young people able to enter into the military.
Al Palmer:Well, I think, as you said so accurately, it's bigger than just the military. It spreads throughout the society. We've got to get people reoriented again and it's not anything that's unusual. I mean civics. Knowing about civics, how our government works, how our people have built a history of the country, is important, and if you're going to defend the Constitution, first thing is you got to know what it is and what it means. So there's lots of work to be done there. Ron, listen, it's so great talking to you, my friend, and a lot of wisdom passed today, I think, between us and I'm so grateful for you being one of the great forces and stars. It's a great mission and it's a great purpose that we serve, and hopefully our friends that are tuned in listening to this can pick up some of that.
Ron Olds:Well, Al, I hope it's beneficial to some people. Again, I want to thank you. I really thank you for being so active in the STARS effort and getting all of these podcasts done, not to mention your talk around the. You interface with a lot of people in a lot of communities and I thank you for not only your service, your friendship, but thanks for all you're doing to help further this STARS mission, and we'll keep at it.
Al Palmer:Well, it's important and for our viewers. Just to give you a little tease for next week we're going to have a judge and a JAG advocate general from the Air Force on, and he's also an Academy graduate and his name is Bruce Smith. He's going to be here to talk about what the issues are with law and the military, how it's working, how it's not, and that's going to be a pretty exciting one. So stay tuned for that. In the meantime, we'll sign off here. Ron, thanks again for being here and to our audience.
Ron Olds:We'll look forward to seeing you next time around. Thank you, al. Stay safe.