STARRS Podcast

A Conversation with USAF Brigadier General Christopher "Mookie" Walker

• STARRS • Season 1 • Episode 20

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In this episode of STARRS & Stripes, host CDR Al Palmer, USN ret, talks with retired Air Force Brigadier General Christopher S. Walker, call sign "Mookie" (USAFA '88). Gen. Walker grew up in Jamaica, Queens in New York City and describes how his journey of wanting to be a pilot led him to the US Air Force Academy and a career in the Air Force.

Palmer and Walker have a great, wide-ranging discussion on many topics: 

  • military service breaks down stereotypes
  • why it's NOT necessary to have 'leaders who look like you' 
  • how DEI disappears in combat when only survival matters
  • the close bonds of combat
  • why the military should follow the way sports teams are set up based on the best, not identity
  • the military is for warfighters--not for benefits
  • how DEI got into the military
  • politics at the flag level
  • role of civilian policymakers at the Pentagon pushing DEI
  • inspiring kids to join the military through 'kick-butt' role models
  • no civilian instructors at the service academies
  • what are the DEI offices in the Pentagon going to do right now with the announcement of Pete Hegseth as SECDEF

BIO
Retired USAF Brig. Gen. Christopher Walker was the Assistant Adjutant General and Commander of the West Virginia Air National Guard. The West Virginia Air National Guard has over 2,100 members and consists of two flying units— the 130th Airlift Wing in Charleston, WV, and the 167th Airlift Wing in Martinsburg, WV. As the Assistant Adjutant General-Air and Commander, he provided command and control over all Air National Guard forces assigned to the state and is the principal advisor to the Adjutant General on all matters related to the Air National Guard (ANG).

Born in New York City, NY, General Walker began his Air Force career as a 1988 graduate of the U.S. Air Force Academy. After Undergraduate Navigator Training at Mather AFB in 1989, he served as a C-130 navigator in weather reconnaissance and tactical airlift squadrons throughout the world, including an assignment as an airdrop planner in the Balkans CAOC in Vicenza, Italy and flying in various contingencies including Operations Provide Promise, Provide Comfort, and Provide Relief. General Walker is a Master Navigator with over 5200 hours in WC-130 and C-130E/H/H3 aircraft, including over 400 combat and combat support hours.

Read more: Full Bio

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For more information about STARRS, go to our website: https://starrs.us which monitors and exposes the CRT/DEI/Woke agenda in the Dept. of Defense and advocates a return to Merit, Equality and Integrity in the military.

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CDR Al Palmer:

Hello America, welcome back to STtars and Stripes. This is your host, commander Al Palmer, united States Navy and also United States Air Force, by the way, in my earlier days, when I finally got the word that the Navy went to sea and that was a little bit better. Anyway, it's good to be back with you for another special edition of Stars and Stripes and we've got a very interesting time that we're facing right now, post-election and back to days when we're talking about how we can make our country a little bit better. One of the things that we're going to do today is talk about solutions to some of the problems that we here at STARS have been talking about for quite a long time now. Several years STARRS has been on track with trying to get the military and the community in general in the United States to understand the threats that we face and to make sure that we have the adequate force to be able to defend the country against anybody who might want to take us on. So part of that today is going to be discussing how we go forward and the things that we need to do to make the country a little bit better. Forward and the things that we need to do to make the country a little bit better.

CDR Al Palmer:

To do that, I've got a very special guest with me today. He's a general officer, rigadier General Christopher S Walker, affectionately known by his handle in the Air Force of Mookie. But, general, it's a great pleasure, sir, to have you with us today and I want to just let our audience know that you've been a part of STARRS now for some time and you've been a really vocal voice in making sure that we let people know how we can correct some of the things that are, in fact, challenges for us today. So, general, welcome to the program and let our audience know a little bit about yourself. I won't do that because I want you to tell us in your own words how you got into the Air Force, how you got into the Air Force Academy and how you had such a great career flying. So please let us know how that worked.

BG Chris Walker:

Okay, so first let me tell you that I grew up in Jamaica, queens, new York City, and if I walk out of the house, go into the street and turn to the left, as long as I don't get hit by a car, I could watch planes taking off from JFK and landing at JFK 24-7. And that was one thing that moved me. But then I must have been five or six years old, or six years old, and my, my, my, my parents came from actual Jamaica, west Indies, down in the Caribbean. My father came to the country 1957, my mother in 1959, 1960, but for both of my parents worked, and so for summers, for summers, I would go down to Jamaica and stay with my grandparents and my aunts and uncles.

BG Chris Walker:

And I remember on a flight again when I was maybe five or six years old and I can't remember whether it was TWA or Eastern or it was an airline that doesn't exist anymore, but back then they used to let you into the cockpit and as a kid the captain says come on up here, and he put his hat on my head and then they gave me a plastic set of wings and showed me all of the instruments and at that age I said this is what I'm going to do Now. My father, so something about and it's still almost the same way now, but something about West Indiania, new caribbean, uh, parents, they want their kids to be doctors, lawyers and that kind of thing, and it's, it's. It's similar to uh east asian, uh south asian and all that, and my father was trying to dictate my career and he wanted me to be a medical doctor and all of the mentors he brought to me of his friends were doctors or dentists, and I said that's all well and good, thank you, but that's not what.

BG Chris Walker:

I want to do, but they were pushing that into me. But I was resolute. I've always been a maverick, I've always been sort of an outlaw, and so, uh, I, I, I ignored all of that and I'm uh, and I wanted to fly, so my, my parents did not have the money to send me to any kind of flight school, have the money to send me to any kind of flight school.

BG Chris Walker:

And I determined as a kid OK, the best way to do this is through the military, and in my mind, because I had no idea that the Navy, Marines and Army had aviation in my mind, I said Air Force. I said, well, that's what I got to do, yeah, right.

BG Chris Walker:

So, I went to a recruiter in Queens there it's coincidental, but it's Jamaica Avenue, but it's a major street there in Jamaica, queens, and my parents are from Jamaica, west Indies, but anyway and that recruiter as recruiters do said you want to fly? Okay, I got you. Yeah, yeah, just sign here. But I was only 17 at the time.

BG Chris Walker:

And I said, okay, you got to get your parents' permission. I said all right, I'll just, I'll wait a while. Thank God, that senior year of my high school, which I went to Brooklyn Technical High School, which is one of the three specialized engineering and science high schools in New York City, During a career day I don't know whether they call them gold bar lieutenants back then, but they had a lieutenant who just graduated from the Air Force Academy come and visit my school and I looked at him and I saw that uniform and I said that's that uniform that Tony Nelson from I Dream of Jeannie wears. I think he's in the Air Force. Let me go talk to him and so most of our audience will know that reference.

BG Chris Walker:

Some of the younger ones will not, but I went to talk to him and I said hey you know what.

BG Chris Walker:

I've been talking to a recruiter because I want to fly for the Air Force and he said wait a minute. You've been talking to a recruiter because I want to fly for the Air Force and he said Wait a minute, you've been talking to a recruiter. What kind of recruiter? Oh, I'm a Jamaican Avenue, he said but you, you need to be an officer. And I said why do I have to be a cop? And he goes no, no, no. Do you know the difference between enlisted an officer? I was go what? And he said, holy smoke, he sat me down and he schooled me and I learned that I need a bachelor's degree. And then he mentioned the Air Force Academy. He mentioned ROTC and OTS Officer Training School and he said and at that time it was true, he said but if you really want to fly, you got to go to the Academy, because they'll take all the flight slots for everybody there who's qualified and then they'll give the crumbs to ROTC and OTS. And I said thank you.

BG Chris Walker:

And after that I went straight to the guidance counselor's office and the guidance counselor knew about West Point but really didn't know about Air Force Academy, and she said I'll get you some info. I said, never mind, there was no internet back there, so I had to get myself to a library and do all the research. But the Air Force Academy is the only college I applied to, much to my father's chagrin. He was livid about this because he still wanted me to go to medical school and I said, eh, spread the wealth yeah.

BG Chris Walker:

And he was really upset that I refused to fill out any applications for any other college. By that time there were several things that were against me to get in the academy. First of all, starting in my senior year of high school and then, secondly, after I took all the tests and the physical fitness tests and all the medical screening by March or so, one of my classmates, john Cosman, at high school, he said, hey, I got an appointment at the academy. I said, okay, mine should be coming soon. All right, it did not. And I waited and waited and then at that point my father was like okay, well, this is the only one he applied to, let's make some calls. We called up the admissions office and they said hey, we're still waiting for your medical records from Dodd-Murb.

BG Chris Walker:

I said I did that back in November, so we call up Dodd-Murb and Dodd-Murb. I said I did that back in November, so we call up Dodd-Murb and Dodd-Murb said oh yeah, we sent that to Coast Guard Academy and Merchant Marine Academy and then we said I didn't apply to either of them.

CDR Al Palmer:

Now, where do I want to?

BG Chris Walker:

go, and then they tried to get things together, but by then they had picked who they're going to pick for the year and then they told me OK, we'll have you on standby if you want.

BG Chris Walker:

And I said what, what does that mean? And then we talked, and we talked some more with the admissions office and they realized, ok, sorry, it's not your fault, it's their fault, the fault of Dodmer would you accept an appointment to the Air Force Academy Prep School? And I said what's that? And they explained it. But they pretty much said hey, if you make it through that, you're getting to the Academy the next year. I said that's what I'm going to do. My father was going. Hey, how about Queens College?

STARRS Producer:

How about SUNY?

BG Chris Walker:

Bristol-Lennybrook. I said, no, no, this is what I'm gonna do, and so I went to the prep school and then the next year I got into the academy.

BG Chris Walker:

But that is how I got into the air force, I mind you, my in my mindset was just being a pilot, an astronaut, and obviously I didn't make astronaut, but nevertheless, it was the Academy, though through all of our training and being around people from all of the United States, actually all over the world, we had foreign exchange students. That put me into the mindset of no, the purpose of this thing is not to just be a pilot, it is to be a career officer and lead, and so things changed for me, probably around my three-degree year, my sophomore year.

CDR Al Palmer:

So how did that change you, other than the leadership portion of it and being an officer rather than just an aviator? But how did the Academy experience change your life?

BG Chris Walker:

All right. So in New York City, and to this day, it is the same way New York City people who grew up there or grew up there.

BG Chris Walker:

They are indoctrinated to think anyone with a Southern accent is stupid and they're also. And then in my neighborhood and certain minority neighborhoods the indoctrination is oh yeah, white people, all rich and as such. And when I got to the academy I met white people who were so poor they didn't even have a bathroom or a working toilet in their own house, they had to go to outhouses. I said I thought that was Little House on the Prairie, stuff. It still goes on. I met then met people from the South Alabama, arkansas and such who I had to rely on to help me through calculus and thermodynamics and I said, okay, everything I was brought up to believe was BS, as brought up to believe was BS.

CDR Al Palmer:

And so the academy changed me in order to find out that stereotypes are stereotypes. And isn't that the beauty, though, really, of the military? It relies on meritocracy and your ability to perform regardless of who you are where you're from or anything else.

BG Chris Walker:

It's a very affordable force, isn't it? Especially if you go through Siri, all of the folks who grew up in the country, and all of us in the city. We had our fingers around the country boys' belt loops because otherwise we were going to starve. So I said, okay, I now know that the folks in New York City, if there was ever some EMP and it cut off everything, they would resort to cannibalism in three days, whereas the folks in the country would be like we're fine.

CDR Al Palmer:

We'll be okay with this. But it's also the, isn't it also the self-discipline that you gain out of that and the ability to depend on yourself to solve problems rather than finding escape routes, and all that. I remember when I got into officer training school with my golf clubs and my sports car arriving, thinking I was going to have a great time, and within hours I found myself on all fours cleaning the toilet with a toothbrush and that's and that's that's. Don't you think that's kind of what happens? Is you got to get depressed a little bit to the point where you get rid of a lot of your own external self factors and have to rely on being good and being able to work with other people? That's the part that we try here in STARS right to let people know about it.

BG Chris Walker:

Oh, my goodness, I am actually grateful to God, grateful to Jesus, that I went to the prep school before I went to the academy, because, if I went straight into the academy I would have been kicked out, no doubt, Because in my neighborhood when somebody comes up in your face yelling at you, you punch them in the jaw and it took. And so if they as cadets at the academy, it's people your age doing that and it's like okay, where I come from, it's a fight. When I went to the prep school, we had actual technical sergeants and master sergeants who were our training instructors and they're a little more intimidating and they taught me how to be in the military and I realized, okay, okay, okay, they're not doing this because they want to fight.

BG Chris Walker:

They're doing this because they're trying to make you better and so thank God, I went to the prep school first.

CDR Al Palmer:

So do you think that's the case, looking forward a little bit in today's world, with the academy and it's even true with with officer training school and even rotc, do you think that there's that kind of active membership in the service, that is, that are the instructors to the point where they're able to relate not just educational material but also the, the requirements for leadership and character, integrity and that old word? I know that you and I like so much experience.

BG Chris Walker:

I'll say this. So a lot of the left will try to say, oh, folks coming into the military need to be led by someone who looks like them, and I say that's bunk and that's a cop out. Good leadership knows how to handle everybody and I've read books of folks during World War II Navy they call them the Golden 13. The first Naval officers after World War II and their testimony said there are white leaders there who actually inspired and motivated them and there were some who still had that prejudice. But again it's all part of leadership prejudice. But but again it's all part of leadership. Anybody can be a good leader and anybody who says that that me as a fresh black recruit, I need to have a black commander in order to perform then those people have no reason to be advising the military at all. They don't know their butts from a hole in the ground. Leadership is leadership it's interesting.

BG Chris Walker:

what in a hole in the ground? Leadership is leadership.

CDR Al Palmer:

It's interesting. In my days in the museum business, I got to know General Benjamin Davis. Yes, and General Davis was a remarkable leader too, but he had the same attitude. It wasn't about who you were, where you came from, what you look like, you know how well can you fly, Can you do the job, and that's what has been the history of our military from the earliest days. Yeah, there's always been some prejudice, there's always been people who have different ways of looking at things, but, in the final analysis, if you can't fight, if you can't work as a team, you're not going to survive. And survival, is it not? Not is one of the the, the keys to this right. It's not just you, it's the team too.

BG Chris Walker:

There, no one's going to survive in a firefight or an air battle if you don't have everybody working on the same frequency we have a lot of so-called experts who are telling the military how we should think, yep, with CRT, dei and all of that, but they've never been in the combat Air Force Navy Marines with an attitude that, oh, I only want to follow people who look like me, or Hispanic, or Black or whatever. That all disappears when the bullets start flying and then they look for the people who they know they're going to live. If they hang with, they're going to live. I've seen it over and over again. And folks who might look like me, if they're clowns and I'm going to die with them, I'll say see you later, I'm going with the white guy. It happens over and over again. So it's just about leadership. It's about survival. The survival instinct kills all of the other prejudices and indoctrination. The survival instinct.

BG Chris Walker:

All the external factors get thrown to the wayside when survival comes.

CDR Al Palmer:

Well, and you and I, as aviators, know that when someone in combat gets shot down, especially if at night or something, no one's going to stop and ask where they came from.

BG Chris Walker:

North or.

CDR Al Palmer:

South, white, black, you know, asian. No one asked what, what, anything other than where are they? How can we get in there? And then people go in, risk their lives to rescue them and and and when they're all back together, they go out and have a beer at the bar and everybody's happy. I wish that our life in a general society could be more like that sometimes.

BG Chris Walker:

So I've been flying in combat and on the ground in combat and what I have observed is that brings people together tighter than actual families. I've seen over and over you and I are old enough to have seen people's marriages that dissolved because they would not talk to their spouse about what was going on, but they would talk to their shipmates, their wingmen, their foxhole mates about what was going on and the spouses couldn't handle not being read in on this and they couldn't handle the tightness and and it ended marriages.

CDR Al Palmer:

But but combat brings people together tighter than anything does indeed, so you still stay in contact, I know, probably with the, with the guys you flew with.

BG Chris Walker:

Oh, yeah, the guys I flew with and the guys I was, uh, in baghdad. With a Matter of fact, the guys I was in Baghdad with, they're having a little get-together next Wednesday, but I can't do that because my girlfriend's birthday is next week, so I say that takes precedence. So I'm going to be with her, but nonetheless I would like to be there because this is a tight group. We were there in baghdad from 2003 to 2005. I was there 2003 to 2004. But again, the whole group, we all know each other and we all support each other to this day, like, like family and all of the folks I flew with in combat.

BG Chris Walker:

all of them were still like this, like a tight-knit fist, and I'm tighter with them than I am with a lot of members of my own family.

CDR Al Palmer:

And we stay that way with them too. In fact, we've got folks like that here at STARS. In fact, one of the guys that I flew with in F4s is another STARS member and that's kind of how I got here actually and Ron Olds, who's a member of our board. Ah, yes, okay, so Ron and I flew F4s together, but you're right, it's that last four years with us. It's been over 50 years and we see each other not regularly, but when we do it's like time is not passed yeah.

BG Chris Walker:

It's like it was only a couple of days ago. It was exactly. The fire does not die.

CDR Al Palmer:

No, it doesn't. But don't you think it's that kind of bonding and that relationship that exists between people in teams in a service, whether you're a wingman or whether you're a sailor on a ship or whatever you're doing, that you have to rely on everybody else, right? And if you're a leader, it's even worse, isn't it? You've got to get into their world and their mindset and make sure that they're taken care of.

BG Chris Walker:

So two things with that. I'm going to start by saying again, the so-called experts are trying to tell us what to do, but what they say is counterintuitive to what NFL, nba and Major League Baseball does. And they've been doing it right for decades and decades. Again, it got integrated 50s and 60s. But nowadays all they care about is can you catch the ball, can you hit a home run, can you get the ball in the hoop?

BG Chris Walker:

And the coaches you don't have minority players going oh, I can't work for this coach because he's white Whereas the left is trying to tell us in the military that that's what we should be doing. They don't know anything, all right. So again, I always try to say let's follow the professional athlete model and if they want diversity, fine, I'm good with diversity, but let's do it the right way. It will happen, naturally, if we go out there and inspire people to be on our team and they put out the effort to be the best and they will come to us, but if we always incentivize by saying oh, we'll pay for your college.

BG Chris Walker:

We'll do this. No, no, no, no, no. We need people who want to fight for the United States. Everybody else meh stay home. Do something else. The military is not for everybody.

STARRS Producer:

Yes.

BG Chris Walker:

We need butt tickers. It is what it is we need to be operating like professional sports and everything will take care of itself.

CDR Al Palmer:

So it's different than working for IBM or Amazon or Morgan Stanley or any other company, or even if you're a doctor or a lawyer, the the, as you say. The difference is we have to be exceptional at what we do not ordinary, because of the demands of the job itself. And it is dangerous, it's life-threatening, it requires commitment, it requires honesty and integrity. So that makes everybody a little different when they get in the military, which brings me to the subject of so how did we get here with the DEI CRT? How did that creep in, do you think, into the military, which you would think would be the last place? It would probably occur.

BG Chris Walker:

So this will be controversial, but again, I don't care, because I'll say it to Obama's face it was Obama that did that and he got rid of certain leaders in the military and he brought in his believers and he was trying to transform the United States. And that crept in little by little and I saw that with certain superintendents of service academies and little by little it started creeping in. But again, the left Marxists they do the long march. They won't come crashing in. They're going to do it little by little and if they can take over the education of our youngsters, everything will take care of itself. That's how they've done it in the past, once President Trump came in in 2016, they said holy smokes this is messing up our agenda, this is messing up our strategy.

BG Chris Walker:

And they came out of the woodwork exposing themselves for what they really, really want to do. And I say thank God for that, because then these last four years Americans woke up and and I'll say I can. I'll say this I saw the transformation over the last. So I I go up to New York City pretty often to take care of my mom. We, my sister and I, hired somebody to live with mom 24-7. Mom is 91. But sometimes it takes more than one person. So my sister will go up there, I'll go up there.

BG Chris Walker:

I go up there more often because I'm retired now, my sister has to take leave and so I'll do it. But whenever I'm in New York City, in Queens, in my neighborhood, my mom hates it. But I will wear t-shirts that say things like keep women's sports female, or t-shirts that say my pronouns are N-O-R, slash, m-a-l, normal or proud American garbage, and I expect people to say something to me. To my surprise, most of the reactions were, yeah, from black people in my neighborhood, and that's why I said, okay, they're waking up. I know how this election is going to turn out.

CDR Al Palmer:

Because it's an American thing.

BG Chris Walker:

That's right, that's right. And then when I talk to my mom because on each Sunday she will keep the TV on church sermons and such, jimmy Swaggart's channel and such, and so then I start saying to mom okay, so is that what you believe? She goes, yeah, yeah. I said here's what the person you voted for says, and she goes. They said that. I said, mom, are you not paying attention to what the people you vote for say? And she says no. And so I've been transforming her as well.

CDR Al Palmer:

So that kind of brings us back to the point of talking about how it got into the military. But the military has been notably apolitical. We're supposed to be that way because we're not supposed to take sides on things. We're only supposed to lead and perform right. We're only supposed to lead and perform right. So if that's the case, then how do people justify having DEI there as a political arm of an ideology?

BG Chris Walker:

So unfortunately, and we all know this and anybody who says otherwise is ingenuous when you get to three and four star level, you have to play the game. And you get to the three and four-star level, you have to play the game and you have to be political. And this past administration, especially Obama's administration, they said, okay, this is what we have to do. To get up there, we do it. Trump's administration he went against that and some of them went rogue on him because they probably didn't expect him to last more than one term and they were resistors, but they weren't going along with the American public. They were going along with the administration.

STARRS Producer:

I saw that.

BG Chris Walker:

We all saw that, and so I lost a lot of respect for a lot of higher-ranking generals and admirals. Well, I will not hide from anybody. Let me know. Anytime I come to DC I'll go right up to them and tell them to their face. But yeah, I lost the respect of a lot of them because they were going along with the politics and not with the Constitution. But they saw that as their way to rise. I think that's about to come to a crashing halt now.

CDR Al Palmer:

Do you think that part of that was due to the influence of the SES and higher grades in the Pentagon and or political appointees? Because again, if the military is supposed to be apolitical. I think we're talking about those of us in uniform, but that doesn't necessarily apply, does it? To the civilian side?

BG Chris Walker:

You have to understand how the promotion system and assignment system goes within the military, within all the services, within the military, within all the services, and so the promotion system at a certain level it becomes very political, but then the people that they bring up there are gonna be making the choices on who will become the next wing commanders and such, or the next brigade commanders, and so it all flows. It's all part of the long march and some of us have been watching and going okay. Okay, and I'll tell you this Before I retired, I did a study within the Pentagon on the promotion system at the behest of the Hispanic caucus and such but nevertheless what I did find is that there are certain generals, the deputy commanders of this is the Air Force.

BG Chris Walker:

the deputy commanders within the major commands, the MAJCOMs, have inordinate influence on who gets promoted in that promotion board and we found two cases of wing commanders who had failed major inspections being promoted to the one star and I said there you have it. If that doesn't say that it's rigged, nothing else does so.

CDR Al Palmer:

so, and when it comes, though, to the promotion I my experience was in my time in Vietnam there were a few people who really stood out, you know, people like General Robin Olds.

BG Chris Walker:

Oh legend. Yeah, I even tried to get my mustache like his at one time, but you know our hair is different.

CDR Al Palmer:

Yeah, a great guy and he ended up being a superintendent there at the Air Force Academy. But he rose to be a one-star but he was controversial. Yeah, he was controversial, but he was controversial in the sense that he was not wanting to go along with just getting things done and then leaving. He hid his own combat service just so he could stick around and fly with his guys. And there were other people like that. You know General Paul Tibbetts, the commander of the.

CDR Al Palmer:

B-29s that dropped the bombs the same way. But he only made one star, and that was it, Chuck.

BG Chris Walker:

Yeager, if you don't go political, you will not rise farther than that, maybe two stars.

CDR Al Palmer:

And a lot of guys like that who were kind of stuck down in the lower levels of that, even though they were the guys who were the true heroes and the warriors in the services. So it seems that we're promoting people based on politics rather than achievement or warrior status.

BG Chris Walker:

But quite honestly, I have to say, that is the way the world works. Thus, what we have to do is ensure, as the American public, who will put in the proper civilian leadership so that the military can be apolitical and still get promoted on merit, and that's very, very difficult. I really, quite honestly, it doesn't matter which side. That's going to be a difficult nut to crack, but we have to get the civilian leadership in there, the SecDef, the assistant secretaries, all of those who run an organization, so that, hey, all I want you all to do is win the wars. Let us take care of the politics and things will get better.

STARRS Producer:

Hey Al, so getting back Al.

CDR Al Palmer:

Yes.

STARRS Producer:

Excuse me, podcast producer Cindy here. General Walker, what is the role of the civilian policymakers in the Pentagon in pushing the DEI agenda, because I don't think that their role is really known. People kind of focus on the military, but can you tell us about the policymakers?

BG Chris Walker:

Okay. So let me say this Again those of us in uniform realize who's really in charge. Thus, if they start pushing controversial policies, most of the time you'll find the folks in uniform. That's going, yeah, boss. And very few people have the fortitude to be the Cassandra Sandra. And here's one example of that happening. I was in a meeting where a certain civilian leadership was trying to figure out a way to convince the American people that drag shows on.

BG Chris Walker:

Air Force bases were okay, and I'm one of the few uniformed people in that room. I'm just listening to people just go yeah yeah, well yeah, I remember in Vaudeville they're just coming with every excuse they could. And then I finally just said to hell with it, because I was going to retire in a year anyway, so it doesn't matter.

BG Chris Walker:

And so I said, so, do we allow burlesque shows? Do we allow negligee or lingerie shows on the base? Well, no, then why would we do this? Why would we do this? To appease less than 1% of the United States population. And I just put it out there like this. And then another person came in and said, well, yeah, back in 1980-something we did ban those kind of shows. And so, yeah, maybe this isn't a good idea. But I said, if I hadn't said anything, they would have convinced themselves that, yeah, we're going to push forward with this and we're going to convince the American people that they are crazy.

CDR Al Palmer:

Do you think that's partly, though, because people talk about DEI, and those kinds of things with appealing to other groups are fundamental to using that as a force multiplier so that we have better people, that we appeal to them, we get them in, and all of a sudden they're now the strength of what we're doing.

BG Chris Walker:

I've watched all of this and I watch who, within the force, are the true butt kickers and I say, if that particular community were, we brought them in, they were the ones. Okay. So let me put it this way so the British brought in Nepalese warriors, the Gurkhas, and they were a force multiplier because they were true A-kickers? Okay, if you want to appeal to them, fine, here this community. Oh, I don't know why this is doing all this fireworks behind me. Sorry, I guess I have to watch my hand movements.

BG Chris Walker:

But, again this certain community they're trying to appeal to. If they were to come in like Gurkhas and chopping people's heads off and making the enemy fear us, then fine, appeal to them. But they're not, they are not, and so let's stop trying to appeal to people who are not going to make a difference in our butt-kicking ability.

CDR Al Palmer:

That's controversial, but I said it and I'll say it to anybody's face I don't care a little bit here, knowing that that's a problem, that we have these things that have occurred, which are weakening the services and being corrosive. How do we go forward? What would you do if somebody is ahead of the military somewhere, whether it's in the Pentagon or in the field? What would be your model for someone that could do that? What would they look like? What would be your model for someone that could do that?

BG Chris Walker:

What would they look like? I'll put it right back to the professional athlete model. I say let's go and do it, just like the NFL does it. We have to start early. We have all these people say we can't militarize our kids. Yeah, whatever. I differ with that opinion. We need to start at age like 10 to 12 years old, inspiring them well with flying, with, with tanks, with, with scuba, diving, everything that sort of adventure. And then then sponsor competitions and they uh, and for instance, with flying, we can do it with virtual reality, vr, similar to what they're doing now with pilot training in the Air Force and Navy. And then we have state competitions and national competitions, the ones who are the butt kickers in that, if they have the propensity to serve, then we, the DOD, sponsor them to get their pilot's licenses in real aircraft. But the same thing can be done with cyber and all of that. But for the flyers who don't want to serve in the military, then let the airlines pick up the tab and bring them up.

BG Chris Walker:

But there's ways to do this. We have Little League, baseball, football, basketball, everything. It's soccer. We should be doing the same thing and by the time they reach age 18 to 22, some of them are going to be Olympic level already. And here's the other thing For those who are worried about diversity everybody wants to win, and so there will be plenty of Black kids, plenty of Hispanic kids, plenty of girls and plenty of gay people, but they just want to kick butt. Take them. All we want are the butt kickers. That's it.

CDR Al Palmer:

It's all making things go boom and disappearing. So one of the people I had the fortune of meeting when I was a museum director was Cliff Robertson, the actor.

BG Chris Walker:

Oh my gosh.

CDR Al Palmer:

I'm old enough to remember him in a lot of movies, yeah.

CDR Al Palmer:

Yeah, and, and, and, and he became a pilot, but. But I had him one day for a fundraising dinner and I asked him I said so what got you into aviation? And, like you, chris, he said well, I was a young kid in San Diego and there was an airfield right there at Torrey Pines, which was right on the edge of the cliffs years ago. And he said I take my bike and I go there and lean it up against the fence and watch the airplanes, kind of leaning over the fence. And he said one day one of the pilots came by and says hey, kid, you know you want to go fly. And he says, well, yeah. And he said well, if you wash my airplane every day for the next couple of months, I'll take you flying. And he did, and that's what got him interested in flying, just like you did, and pretty much like I did too, as a kid, parking my bicycle at the end of the runway when my dad was at Langley Air Force Base, Anyway. But that's the whole point, isn't it?

CDR Al Palmer:

We need to inspire people to want to serve, in spite of who they are, where they're from, because we can do that in our country Other places can't really but instead, it seems-.

BG Chris Walker:

Part of my testimony. When I was an expert witness for students for fair admissions against the United States Naval Academy, I said the strongest thing we can do is inspiration, and we've lost that art.

CDR Al Palmer:

And instead now what we do is.

BG Chris Walker:

We're bribing. Oh, we'll pay for your education and we'll give you all these benefits. We need to inspire them to want to serve.

CDR Al Palmer:

And that leads me to that next question, which is instead of doing that you're right, we're we're paying them. That's a problem with the people who are already into service and even when they come in, we're paying a real instrument bonuses, bonuses to officers just to stick around. And the problem is, even with a lot of money they're not sticking around.

CDR Al Palmer:

And that's that's disturbing to me, because you know, we used to be able to count on families that had experience in the military service to have their children, their relatives, sign up, and now we can't even do that and that's on the wane. So, yeah, we've we've got to work real hard to have their children, their relatives, sign up, and now we can't even do that and that's on the wane. So, yeah, we've got to work real hard, I think, now, and re-inspiring people to want to serve.

CDR Al Palmer:

And I have people like Cliff Robertson, and I'd suggest General you too. You know, having done that, that's what we need to point to.

BG Chris Walker:

I have literally scores of friends, retirees, who say they are discouraging their children but encouraging them to be the stalwarts and bulwarks against the leftism so that our military actually has a chance. Because if they, don't join and only the brainwashed. Join, then we are all done.

CDR Al Palmer:

Well, maybe there's some hope on the horizon here. I don't want to be too early in predicting things, but my grandson I got him to join the Navy as a sailor years ago because he was kind of a wayward young guy in some ways, but but, but he but he joined and served for a a few years, but he got out about a year ago and and he's and it was partly because of all of this we're talking about, uh, the, the attacks on who you are, what you're doing and and all that, and the paperwork and endless lectures and things. I think he had it well. He just wrote me the other day his dad did and said guess what? He's going back into the Navy as of this week. There we go.

CDR Al Palmer:

Now, that's, just that's just a small story, but but I suspect that if we at stars are more successful as we have been, we can spread that word. Don't you think about how this is now a new route, a new beginning or a new awakening, perhaps?

BG Chris Walker:

I predict that after this election, all of a sudden, the services will not have a recruitment gap. That's my prediction. We'll see. I'm willing to actually put $100 on the table about that, but nevertheless.

CDR Al Palmer:

I'll join you.

BG Chris Walker:

But Stars, Calvert, Task Group, MacArthur Society, if we start spreading the word that, hey, our DOD is back let's go, let's ride hard, we will actually positively affect our DoD Well, and it's a real resource.

CDR Al Palmer:

I think, as you described, we have the ability to do it because we're not in the middle of that cauldron inside the five-sided puzzle palace. You know, we can advise and direct a bit from the outside right and I always, you know, like to tell people look, you know what's what's made us great, all of these people who have sacrificed in this long gray line, or blue line, or green line, of generations of people who have served for us, of which you're, you and I are part of. We rely on that so that we can continue to be a free nation, because we're a nation of volunteers and we have an all-volunteer force. Now, right, we didn't always, yes, but we do now and, quite honestly, there are some people who are?

BG Chris Walker:

advocating to bring back the draft and, quite honestly, I can't agree with that because I only want people who want to be there. It's hard enough trying to inspire people who want to be there, but then trying to inspire and lead people who don't want to be there that I'll leave that to prison guards. We have a Super Bowl winning DOD to build.

CDR Al Palmer:

Well, and I think our wonderful producer, Cindy, and I have had that conversation. I know you and I were part of one just recently where some of the folks are expressing the idea that people are coming into particularly the academies, who don't necessarily have the same standards of integrity or honesty it's okay, because you know what this is our culture now. We come from a culture where it's okay to kind of take shortcuts, it's okay to cheat a little bit, and so we don't necessarily need to have a lot of integrity. No, we do.

BG Chris Walker:

And if we don't, have people that we bring in, and what makes it worse is when the leadership at the academy goes along with that attitude, and that's why I say okay, all is lost. Get rid of them, raise the institution to the ground and rebuild it because something went wrong.

CDR Al Palmer:

But isn't it a beautiful thing to see the real integrity, the real honesty, the real commitment at work when people are actually doing it. How smoothly that goes and you can depend on people. Smoothly that goes and you can depend on people. You know as, uh, as as one of our members the other day and stars said, uh, who was a, who's a blue angel or was still is, you're always a blue angel. I think he says look if I'm going to fly my.

CDR Al Palmer:

If I'm going to fly my airplane, I want to trust my mechanic who's been working on it to have done it perfectly, so I don't even have to look at the airplane. I can jump in, start it up, take off, fly inverted and know that I'm not going to go auger into the ground. That's the kind of thinking and the kind of attitude we've got to have, right.

BG Chris Walker:

Don't you remember the good old days when we did not have to lock our rooms at the academy? And we can leave money out on our desks and it'll be just fine. I found it interesting when I was stationed in Japan, january of 95 to March of 97, in Tokyo, even a bustling city like that same way, if you dropped your wallet on the ground, you could expect somebody to call you here's your wallet with all your money in it.

BG Chris Walker:

Oh yeah, but now at all of the academies that is no longer the case. And I ask I mentor lots of cadets at all of the academies through the years and I try to ask them was it like that with you? So I cannot pin down when that changed, but it has changed of the academies through the years and I try to ask them was it like that with you I?

CDR Al Palmer:

so I cannot pin down when that changed, but it has changed so, but when you were there, they were mostly all active duty instructors, right?

BG Chris Walker:

yes, yes, oh lord, okay, so you got me started. So when I was there, so you got me started. So when I was there, there was one civilian instructor and it was psychology and that was my senior year, so my first degree year. I can't remember his name, but nevertheless that was it. All of the other instructors were military and that makes a difference, as I see the difference now, and now it's like 60-40, almost 50-50. Holy smokes, they're bringing in the long march and we can't allow that.

BG Chris Walker:

The last time I checked the here's another controversial thing that I'll go on a record for and people know that I'm running for the board of directors or the AOG. But here's a controversial thing that I'll stand by and if you question me, I'll say it just as proudly Get rid of the civilian instructors, only military instructors. Bam, that's it.

CDR Al Palmer:

Well, and it's now about 40%, I think. Last time I checked about 40% of the academies. Roughly all of them are now civilian and they're mostly from the East Coast 40%, 45%, yeah. Ivy League, right, yeah, so you don't. And people make the argument that, well, you need the knowledge, you need the instruction. You can find that in people who've got.

BG Chris Walker:

What they're trying to imply is that our military people aren't as smart as these other ones, and that is not true.

CDR Al Palmer:

Well, they are.

BG Chris Walker:

So I say all you're doing is introducing. You're trying to turn us into UCLA. We're not UCLA. Every class that we have, I don't care if it's English, whatever it is we need some sort of nexus toward war fighting, so that they know. And these civilian instructors cannot do that, and so sorry. So sorry if you, if it was my choice, you'd all be gone. Sorry if you lose a job, but you could find a job at some other college, but not at our service. Love you but bye.

CDR Al Palmer:

You know, I remember our board member of Stars, Ronald Ron Olds, and I a few years ago were having a squadron reunion in Colorado at the Air Force Academy and I remember we asked the superintendent and one of the one-stars that was there. So we looked around and we see a lot of people talking about budgeting, personnel management you know logistics and a whole lot of other things, but we didn't see anybody wanting to talk about war fighting. Are you teaching that? And there was this kind of silence all of a sudden in the room and it occurred to me then that that's the key that's missing right now the Robin Olds attitude about war fighting. They worship him as a figure, but not what that's about in the Air Force or the Navy has the same problem.

BG Chris Walker:

I don't know if you you probably read. It must've been three, three, maybe four weeks ago, a recent grad out of the Air Force Academy lieutenant, wrote an article about how the Academy changed her because she didn't expect it to be about war and killing I go who talked to you before you applied, and she wants to be a conscientious objector now and I'm of the mindset all right, let her be, but make her pay back all of the money that we spent on her education Again. This is the kind of thing that the academies are producing now and that is not what we need. If the taxpayers are spending their precious dollars on producing warrior leaders to protect our country, then we need military instructors and we need none of this mindset that produces conscientious objectors. Nothing wrong with conscientious objectors, but the military is not for everybody. Know what you're getting into.

CDR Al Palmer:

So another article I was reading not too long ago and it's one of the people I think we got that posted on our website discussion about the three and four stars again and the higher levels of the Pentagon. And you know, you're right. There's a you reach one or two stars most of the time and then from there on it's really pretty much political and it's all behind a desk someplace. Somebody suggested that the three and four stars end up with two-year tours and, just like the Navy, you end up with shore duty and sea duty. You know. So one of those two years is going to be in a field with an actual hands-on command where you've got responsibilities for people, equipment, operations, combat, and then you can come back to the armchair and relax and spend time with the family for another two years.

CDR Al Palmer:

What do you think about that?

BG Chris Walker:

So World War II was much different. Yes, the three and four stars were there in the thick of it. Patton was actually there on the front lines with his people. We will never well, I don't want to say we'll never see that again, but we don't see that now and again in my mind three and four stars need to still be inspirational.

STARRS Producer:

And so, george.

BG Chris Walker:

Marshall was inspirational, ike was inspirational, patton was inspirational. Nowadays, I guess they're inspirational from their Twitter accounts or whatever, but no one is going. Yeah, let's go right into the gunfire with you. That's not happening, except maybe at the one or two star level, and I think it's time for a change on that. Again, this is controversial, but it is what it is. I say what I say.

CDR Al Palmer:

Well, we got a new sheriff in town. It looks like.

BG Chris Walker:

What he's thinking. He's rapidly building his cabinet and why. Yesterday, when I learned Headsets yes, pete Hedgeseth, yes I said okay, and I know about Pete Hedgeseth, but I knew that the main opposition from the left would be that he was a reporter for Fox, but they would never look into all the other things he did. So I said this is controversial, but I'm behind it, I'm with it. Let's do this Because I know, because I've listened to a lot of things that he said about where China is and where we are and how. I'm not sure what will be bleeped out, but he said something like we have our heads up our butts while China is trying to get it together, and so I said so he, I think, will be a great choice, and there are a lot of three and four stars and even two and one stars who are probably biting their nails right now, knowing that their time is limited.

CDR Al Palmer:

Well, it's a very odd juxtaposition, in a way, because he's an actual warrior and he's been in battle. Two bronze stars, yeah, and so he's he's a scholar.

BG Chris Walker:

Was it Harvard? And what Princeton?

STARRS Producer:

But again two different.

CDR Al Palmer:

Ivy League schools, but but again two different ivy league schools and and uh, he was a major, I guess, when he left the service.

BG Chris Walker:

So so now here's a, here's a former. Well, we had um, what was his name? But maybe what was, uh was an enlisted. So yeah, so major, you know, yeah, exactly but he's gonna now.

CDR Al Palmer:

So yeah, the three and four stars have got to now deal with the major who's the? Actual combat veteran.

STARRS Producer:

And also he wrote the book on DEI and the military and how it harms. And so, General Walker, what's going through the minds of all the DEI people in the Pentagon right now?

BG Chris Walker:

I imagine many of them, especially the really, really higher-ups, are figuring out ways to hide those offices so that they can try to wait out the storm. Well, for instance, the Secretary of the Air Force Office of DNI is no longer there. They folded that under the Assistant Secretary of the Air Force of Manpower and Reserve Affairs in a sort of resiliency role to try and hide it, because they saw the writing on the wall. But with Pete Hedges in there, and especially if Matt Lohmeyer comes in as part of a task force, all of that will be rooted out and it will be gone, and I wouldn't mind being there helping them.

CDR Al Palmer:

And so, for those of our audience that might not recognize the Matt Lohmeyer name, he was Lieutenant Colonel who was thrown out of the Air Force because he was exposing Marxism and the lack of leadership in the new Space Command Space Force. So yeah, but he's a soldier in line with Hegseth. They're both characters of the same cloth, almost, so that's going to be interesting to see how that works. Well, general, listen. Thank you so much for being with us here today, walking us through some of that history and some of your great experiences, and thank you for serving your nation and for flying and your story about getting into flying and the Air Force.

BG Chris Walker:

If I didn't love it I wouldn't have stayed so long. I'm telling you the people within the DOD, or the thing that kept me in. I saw tastes of civilian life and went. I'm not going to get the same camaraderie.

CDR Al Palmer:

And that's why I stayed so long. Well, and hopefully there'll be some young people perhaps watching this who might be inspired by some of that. I hope that they will, and if they've listened carefully to what we've talked about, there's enough material there for them to digest.

BG Chris Walker:

Remember young people, we want butt kickers.

CDR Al Palmer:

Well, that's exactly what we're going to get. We've had them before. We'll concentrate on that General. I promise you we'll do that. Thank you for being with us and to our audience. Thanks for being with us for another special edition of Stars and Stripes. We're not shy about telling people how it is, and we're here to try to see if we can be a solution to some of that problem in our country, and only because it's got to work for you, the people out there watching this podcast. Thanks for being with us. We'll look forward to seeing you next time. This is Alan Palmer signing off In general. Thanks for being with us.